Crackdowns by both the city and the county have thrown Rochester's indie music scene into confusion. Two small concert providers - the operators of A/V Space at the Public Market and John Twentyfive, who has held concerts in county parks - have had to scramble to find new venues for events they had scheduled.

As part of its focus on "illegal house parties," city officials ordered A/V Space to stop offering entertainment. Officials said that zoning didn't allow for public use of the space, and that the venue had failed to get the necessary permits for live shows. As a consequence, A/V Space is leaving the second floor of 8 Public Market, its location since 2004 and home to roughly 10 concerts per month.

"We're looking for new spaces," says Joe Tunis, an A/V Space curator.

In another blowto Rochester's punk and hardcore scene, the Monroe County Parks Department recently cancelled several bands' reservations for park lodges due to internet postings that advertised either a cover charge or a suggested donation for attendees.

While it's permissible to host live music events that are open to the public in county parks lodges, commercial transactions are prohibited.

Musician and promoter John Twentyfive, who has been hosting all-ages, no-alcohol shows in county parks such as Ellison and Powder Mills for nearly a decade, says that the atmosphere of the shows has been positive and that his relationship with park staff has been good.

"We were totally respectful of the park," says Twentyfive. "It was a place that was always cool with us being there. I haven't ever had a single problem."

Donations at the door were designed to share the costs associated with a DIY show: "We'd pay for the park lodges out of our own pockets, so with the money that came back from the door we'd pay ourselves back for the lodge, any flyering that we did, and then we'd give the bands gas money."

The county's decision to cancel existing lodge reservations has left promoters who had booked touring bands suddenly without venues for their shows. One show set for Ellison Park was moved to Syracuse for lack of an open alternative in Rochester. "There's a lot of people that have shows that are just trying to figure out what to do," says Twentyfive.

Several local venues are helping the A/V Space host the concerts it already had scheduled. "I think everything that we had booked in July and August, minus maybe one show that's still pending, has been moved successfully to either Boulder or the Bug Jar. They've been really good about that," says Tunis.

"It went to from one show to us becoming their foster family for right now," says Jessica Stroud, general manager at Boulder Coffee. Boulder Coffee is hosting five of the seven A/V Space shows scheduled for July.

"I think it's such a cool culture. It blends really well with what we're trying to do here with our music scene," says Boulder owner Lyjha Wilton who, along with others in the South Wedge and around Rochester, has expressed interest in helping the A/V Space curators find a new home. "I want to try and be as active as I can in trying to figure out a solution for them."

"We have a number of leads from a couple of groups that are interested in giving us ideas for buildings in their area," says Tunis. "When we start looking for spaces we're of course going to have to talk to the city about the viability of different locations for making sure zoning and entertainment licenses and stuff like that is in line."

Ironically, in enforcing the rules the city and county have shut down two of the most viable spaces used by a music community that, if anything, encourages alternatives to underage drinking and violence

The A/V Spacecurators and others are trying to give Rochester bands an alterative to bars and clubs where hosting smaller, all-ages punk and hardcore shows is often not economically feasible. Even renting out a local bar for an afternoon matinee can run a promoter up to $300, meaning little, if any, money is left over for touring bands.

Marty Musto, a promoter and fan who is looking to open an independent punk- and hardcore-oriented venue this fall, says that most of Rochester's current music venues are oriented toward genres that sell liquor and beer, not the all-ages punk-hardcore crowd. "Their main goal is to run a bar and have entertainment at that bar," says Musto.

"We're just looking to open something that's completely legitimate where kids can go and play music without drugs and alcohol, and without the cops hassling you and all that," says Musto, recalling his own experience growing up around all-ages, no-alcohol venues in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.

"The hardest thing is trying to convince the city that, one, it's worthwhile to do, and two, that it's safe," says Musto. "Starting a venue that doesn't bring profits in from liquor sales is difficult because everything - from rent to an inspection to a business plan to an entertainment license - requires money."

Unfortunately, Musto says, in Rochester, "the city doesn't recognize the need for it." Calls for comment were not returned by city officials.

You don't need to look far for a venue - and a city - with a welcoming attitude toward independent punk and hardcore music. The Wescott Community Center, a private non-for-profit in Syracuse, acts as such a space, offering a variety of community programs in addition to allowing concert promoters to lease the space for an hourly rate plus a security deposit.

"We're the only place that is really catering to the younger punk bands. We're unique that way," says Steve Susman, executive director of the center. "The city loves us for it because we're keeping the kids off the streets."

For Rochester's punk and hardcore community, there's both hope and uncertainty, at least in the immediate future. "Right now, it's just trying to get people together and talking about what our options are," says John Twentyfive.