Comment Archives: stories: News & Opinion: Urban Journal: Last 30 Days
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
Another ironic essay by Towler, seeing that she has saw fit to not hire even one single black person or hispanic from the "City" of Rochester for her newspaper. Feel free to look at the staff names and google their pictures. Not one minority. And then have the gall to wax on about employment discrimination. PLEASE!!!!
Re: “National security and the problem with Syria”
Here is what most people are unaware of:
1. The US is providing arms via CIA connections (gun running which is violating international law)
2. Those CIA connections are via a town in Libya called Benghazi
3. The attack on the embassy site was after the Ambassador met with officials from Turkey who were setting up a transfer of US arms brought to Libya during the uprising via ship to Turkey, then Syria
4. The Saudi's were also involved by facilitating the US / Syria relationship
5. The Saudi student caught in Boston and later released is also very much a part of the Saudi influence in this country .... not unlike the 400 Saudi's who flew out of this country a few days after 9/11/01 when no planes were allowed to fly in or out of this country. ......
Now many might respond with this being a conspiracy theory and I would agree .... the problem is there is plenty of real, actual information to support all of this especially the Saudi's influence on this US Administration and probably to last ...... To say we should be careful about becoming involved in Syria is too little said and clearly too late ......
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
Interesting article, with a lot of numbers thrown around, with the exception of one number. ACTRochester.org says that 79% of black "families" in the city of Rochester are single parent for the 2007-10 period, up from 74% in 2000. Nationally, the percentage of black "families" that are single parent is 63%. The black "family" has disintegrated and this is a direct contributor to poverty. The proliferaton of Dr. Conrad Murray "family values" in the black community means that a guy that fathers 8 kids from 7 different mommies is not all that unusual. The only way to change this is to demonize single parenthood in the same way we demonize other things in society that we want less of - cigarette smoking, obesity, texting while driving, and more. We just collectively need the guts to call a spade a spade. The "lifestyle choice" of having kids out of wedlock is wrong, and should be discouraged. I, for one, and sick and tired of paying for somebody else's irresponsible lifestyle "choices." Enough is enough.
Re: “City should turn down University Ave. project”
For what it's worth, from a suburbanite, the proposed building aesthetically will be an improvement for University when compared to the Gleason façade. As far as the "character of the neighborhood" a multi unit dwelling fits right in with the pre-existing apartment building just to the east of this site. It's not as though this is being dropped into the upper Monroe neighborhood of single and two family homes.
It sounds like the GEH just is looking for a way to lock down that real estate without paying market rates until they have the funding or interest in expansion.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest”
-Thomas Paine
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
I think steve has had the most accurate and nuanced view of this issue, so far.
Some of the earlier commenters who have decried teenage parenting also have some reasonable points, even if the hyperbole is occasionally masking their points.
The problem we're looking at here is a cyclical, self-perpetuating one that isn't "caused" by race, but has a strong racial component due to historical factors.
Poor, impoverished, barely literate high-school dropouts are more likely to raise the same, no matter what color their skin is. When people of this type are concentrated due to housing costs and/or inability to take advantage of opportunities due to ignorance or ignorance-based fear, they become a visible class, and if there's some way to distinguish them physically, that "reason" will be blamed as the cause.
It is absolutely true that people throughout history have raised themselves up by their bootstraps. It is equally true that those people are exceptional, and not the rule. (i.e. it's possible, but not probable.) Education is the most democratic method of helping the lower class rise from poverty, but education also requires certain skills and habits that may not be well-supported at home.
But... at the root of the issue is that even when someone gets an education, they need a job to be able to take advantage of that education. There is a decided lack of jobs available in the Rochester area for people who have graduated high school, but not been able to go to college. To wit: there is no reason for many young people to put forth the effort to get a diploma, when there's nothing to do with that diploma. Many of the service industry jobs they can get, they can get with a GED or less.
Rochester needs more lower-tech industrial-level jobs where people with only a high school diploma can make a living wage. As much as I, as an educator, want everyone to get the best and most education possible, I recognize that not everyone is college material. Those people deserve to be able to make a living as well. It should not require stitching together 3 jobs' worth of income to be able to make ends meet.
How do we get those lower tech, higher paying jobs (higher than Wegmans or Wal-mart, anyway) here? That's an answer I don't have.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
A mixture of racism and good ideas in these comments so far. I consider the issue one of economics as much as race. Someone like Obama or Janet Lomax or Bill Johnson or Wade Norwood or Adam McFadden are all college-educated, upper middle-class and upper-class professionals. With higher education comes access to professional jobs, which provide a higher level of income. A white student in a poor school district (Gates, Chili, Albion) without college-educated parents is more likely to work in a low-wage, low-skilled job than an African-American who goes to SOTA who's parents are a lawyer and a college professor. Why? Because the SOTA student has been raised in a culture of education and affluency, with clear role models to emulate. Institutional racism plays a role but not as much as certain activists and nay-sayers would like. Until we create easy access, high-paying jobs and give kids (white and black) good role models, this cycle will continue unabated and everyone will continue complaining unabated.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
@Justice: LOL. Far from "ignoring the problem," we've dumped trillions upon trillions of taxpayer dollars into all kinds of schemes we were promised would eradicate the problem. We spend more now than in the Golden Age of the so-called War on Poverty. So enough already about taxpayer money. And nobody's placing "all the blame" on illegitimate parents. But moral revival is a necessary, even if not sufficient, part of the solution, and one that the original article ignored.
@MJN: You're darn right, we object to government schools — the same ones that produce the abysmal results this article describes — diverting scarce time and resources to ideological campaigns promoting sexual filth and immorality. But that's neither here nor there. Places where such policies have been in place for years have essentially the same or higher rates of illegitimacy.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
The findings in this article are nothing new. However, I want to express an opinion about the continuous misinterpretation of statistical data as representing the cause of the problem at hand - poverty. I quote the superintendant of the city school district that states:
"African American students are not meeting any of the state standards in the areas of English, math, science or social studies." Neither, in fact, are Hispanic children. Only white children are.
this gap in academic achievement is strongly associated with race, ethnicity, social-economic background, and family and neighborhood stability," which are having a major, negative effect on children's achievement in school.
In statistical analysis - correlation of variables does not prove causation. In other words, just because there are a number of factors that are all associated with a certain outcome - poverty or poor academic performance, does not imply that the outcome is caused by all of those factors. So, for those that look at the implications that this is a racial or ethnicity driven problem, may be wrong. All of the factors indicated - "race, ethnicity, social-economic background, and family and neighborhood stability" are (I suspect) correlated with each other. They don't all help explain the cause.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
Why do I suspect that those who are crying the loudest about the problem of out-of-wedlock children and the number of young parents who are unable to support children of their own are also the ones who were first in line to whine that the city schools’ plan to address the problem in part by handing out condoms was immoral and would only promote sexual congress and excess?
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
Putting all the blame on blacks and Hispanics for immorality and the continuing cycle of poverty rather than on our society for ignoring the problem while wasting our money to address theproblem on corporate welfare, senseless wars of choice, and tax breaks for the wealthy is both racist and classist.
Re: “City should turn down University Ave. project”
Serious? Another "NO" vote for a project which can help this area and the city of Rochester in one fell swoop? This has GOT to be the most calcified mentality toward development that I've ever seen in the many cities in which I've lived. I live in NOTA. I own rental property in NOTA. And I welcome this development! I live here because I like urban density. I like people on the street. I like businesses nearby that will only come and thrive if there are people there to purchase their goods. As for my rentals, the more peope who want to live in this area the easier it is for me to rent mine. How any business in the area (see Craft Company No6 opposition) can possibly argue against this is beyond me.
And, if you've not noticed, the City of Rochester is cash starved. How can turning a parcel from a tax exempt one to one paying taxes be anything but a good thing? I support Eastman House, but stop your whiny baby tactics and claims as to "your viewshed". It is NOT your viewshed, and if you had wanted to preserve or develop it differently you've had a number of years in which to do so. You negotiated in bad form, and now you've lost it. That's the private marketplace. Deal.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
BTW, just what does Prof. Obama's election have to do with the price of tea? Does anybody actually think he has something in common with the population that is the subject of this report? For all intents he is as much the beneficiary of white privilege as anyone else. On the other hand, many of the report's findings could apply to similarly situated people of other hues.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
I 4th these notions!! How come nobody EVER brings up the biggest issue - having kids before you're ready. Stopping that would fix many of the other problems that come up. And it's not like getting pregnant is some disease you catch, there are easy and well-documented ways to prevent it. Of course, if your parent(s) didn't choose to use these methods, it might not be immediately obvious to you. It all starts with the PARENTS!!!
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
The transition from poverty to working class is the easiest of the upward transitions to be made and people born into a disadvantaged set of circumstances are in the prime position to enjoy some upward mobility, regardless of race or neighborhood. Being self-made has some unique benefits that being born with a silver spoon does not convey. Hard work builds character and a key motivating factor is to provide better opportunities for your kids than you had.
My inclination is that the failure to thrive discussed here is not due to people being black, or people being in the city, but it's primarily a lifestyle choice of the people described, e.g. a conscious decision to indulge in unproductive behaviors while gaming the social safety net instead of undertaking the hard work of self improvement, or perhaps just not realizing that there's another way to live due to lack of role models.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
Echoing the other comments, the elephant in the room, to judge from this summary, is the self-perpetuating cycle of casual immorality and bastardy. Nothing will change absent an overwhelming moral and spiritual awakening.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
It's like Katy said you will have more children in poverty when Mom & Dad are 15 years old. They aren't going to be the CEO of some company. It's time for those in poverty to take responsability to teach thier young to STAY in school, work hard & wait to have kids. I wasn't handed everything, I had to claw my way to were I'm at. My grandparents learned english when they moved here with nothing, both parents were poor growing up & made it to the middle class. Each generation we try to improve our kids education. You got to suck it up & roll up your sleeves.
Re: “Blacks, poverty, and the future of Rochester”
The economic realities will remain bleak until the concepts of birth control and family planning are understood. It is pretty hard to 'raise' six children, with six different exCon/BabyDaddies with no money and no education. And that is the problem: they are not 'raised' they are released to the streets and the 'village' or 'aunts' , 'cousins' or 'grandparents.' If you look at successful black and Hispanic people, what they have in common is THEY WAITED TO HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL THEY COULD SUPPORT THEM. (Emotionally and financially)
Re: “City should turn down University Ave. project”
J.A.M., you raise important points. Regarding our contribution to the Eastman House: we make contributions to numerous area arts organizations and other non-profits, as do many local media. That support is clearly stated on the organizations’ promotional material. We’ve written articles praising those organizations, and we’ve written articles criticizing them.
On the issue of the apartment ownership: It’s a two-flat, 100-plus-year-old house next door to our home – meager competition for a 102-unit, spanking new building. I suppose you could say any new apartments are competition for our units. But I’ve cheered on other new apartment developments, when they were in locations I thought were appropriate. And you might make the argument that the density in the neighborhood, and the resulting popularity of the area, makes our apartments more desirable. Our property value has certainly increased. So perhaps we have a vested interest in more apartments. And any development that adds to the city’s tax rolls helps every other city taxpayer, including me.
But overall, I think you’re right: On the apartments issue, I should have indicated that my husband and I own a rental property in the neighborhood, letting readers decide whether that had any bearing on the subject.
Re: “What if we're investing in the wrong education?”
And yet somehow, the beleaguered RCSD faculty is supposed to overcome this gap or we lose our jobs.
Lots and lots of hard-working educators spend hours and hours preparing, teaching and assessing. Yet we're told we're just not good enough.
I know this article isn't meant to tell us to stop or that our efforts are pointless. The point (which many have been arguing for a long time) is that the current reform efforts are aimed in the wrong direction. Over 95% of the people who teach in the district are fine, and are doing the best with the hand we've been dealt. Reforms must be targeted at the people who need the help - children and parents.
If we spent 1/3 of what we spend on Special Ed in early childhood care and educating parents, we would need less than the 2/3 remaining in the budget. (Not a study result, just some darn fine logical thinking.)
Why does the district spend so much? To try to play catch-up. If I were a race car driver and I started a 500 mile race when my competitors already had 150 miles done, I'd need to be spending way more on my car to even consider being competitive. If I could somehow start at the same time as all the others, I would not need to spend quite so much on my car. It's a clunky analogy, but it works.