Simply our lack of support from the State is because Mr. Morrelle and the rest of our local state pols have not done their jobs. Yet each and every one of them will get reelected.
Greece seems like its full of Hateful Catholics. I won't be going there and spending anymore of my money there. I'm pretty sure I am not welcome there anyways....
Cuomo acted like a bully towards the patients and their caregivers in the final days of the legislature. He threatened to veto the well planned and thoughtful Compassionate Care Act andthen he rammed through a bill that reflected his misguided belief that medical marijuana was a law enforcement issue. He deserves to be tossed out through the Democratic primary process. Progressives should get behind the Teachout/Wu campaign. Go to www.zephyrteachout.com to learn more about the campaign.
While I am a huge fan of Wall Therapy, and am excited to once again be able to see murals go up and talk to artists, I am again disappointed that the Rochester artists picked for murals were once again ones who have worked with the Sweet Meat Co. in the past. It seems that in the past several years, they have either been from SMC, or are have been in shows with them, and that’s not to say that they aren't talented (I'm a huge fan of Shawnee's in particular), but there are so many talented artists in Rochester, and many of them are outside of this particular circle.
Wall Therapy pushes so many boundaries, and seems to pick so many varied artists from outside the city; it seems only natural that they would try to do the same with those they choose from their home base.
Invoking the Spanish Inquisition. Equating Galloway v. Town of Greece with the Scopes trial. Expecting us to believe the First Amendment establishes atheism as the State religion. Expecting us to believe prayer to open Congressional House and Senate sessions is a violation of the First Amendment. Methinks the secular fundamentalists doth protest too much.
There aren't enough audiences for all the religious talkers out there. Greece Supervisor Bill Reilich should keep opening prayers brief. Why does he bring people in who never want to stop talking? When Reilich says "Amen", I think there is a feeling of unity and shared relief that the speaker has finally finished!
I find it outrageous how some are twisting words and twisting history to make their point. The reason the Founders established freedom of religion was to prevent a national church, such as the Church of England in the UK, from being established. They did NOT oppose religion. John Adams was a Christian Deist; look it up. Please read The Founders on God and Government and quit making attacks on people trying to set the record straight. Many of the Founders supported days of prayer and thanksgiving (Washington issued several such proclamations, despite not being a communicant in the Episcopal Church). Most of the Founders believed in some degree of Christian thought (what is now considered cultural Christianity), because the overwhelming majority of people in this country in the 1790s believed in the Christian religion. And the fact is that 65% of people in Greece are Roman Catholic and ought to be given more consideration than a handful of disgruntled atheists who do not have the right to run roughshod over the majority. While people of faith (like ME) respect the rights of non-believers or others, such as Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc., it doesn't mean we should have to listen to nonsense about their not being respected. In many countries, not being the official religion results in prison, torture and death. If people don't want to listen to Christian prayer at a meeting of mostly Christians in a heavily Republican and Catholic town, they should try putting cotton in their ears or arriving AFTER the invocation. Do what Washington did when Communion was served in the Episcopal Church: Leave along with the other non-communicants and return for the invocation. Leave while the prayers are going on or come after them. Or sit respectfully like people once did, keep your mouth shut and bear it.
Steve is correct in pointing out the many government bodies who begin sessions with invocations. While I strongly favor elimination of all this superstitious nonsense within our government, there are several things that make the situation in Greece especially troublesome. First, as I said in my previous post, the invocations in Greece have gone off the rails. These are not invocations that convey any respect for those present who are not practicing Christians. You can listen to a sample at: http://wxxinews.org/post/connections-discu… . The replay of the invocation begins some 5 minutes into the program.
Second (a point made in the court's dissenting opinions), a town board meeting is not at all like a legislative session. Regular citizens are coming in to make their case to their town government, "to petition for redress of grievances". Imagine you are a non-Christian coming to one of the meetings to speak, to try to persuade the board members to weigh your concerns in making their decisions. First thing you are confronted with is a highly sectarian prayer. You can either pretend to be one of these Christians, or else you need to identify yourself as an outsider, not of this club. Of course, as a resident of the town, you are not an outsider. but the invocation certainly stamps you as one. The board members all "amen" right along with almost everyone else. So are you now made to feel like you've got a prayer (pun intended) of your views being considered impartially?
None of the Christians I know would condone the intolerance being expressed in these invocations. I can only hope that a large contingent of attendees at these gatherings start walking out for each and every one of these invocations. C'mon Grecians, how 'bout standing up (and walking out) for what's right!
"The U.S. Senate and House start their sessions with prayer every day."
But they shouldn't. Prayer before a session begins is not establishment of religion. Prayer as part of opening a session is, and that is illegal per Amendment I.
"The President of the United States has participated in the National Prayer Breakfast for the last 61 years."
But shouldn't participate as President, only as a private citizen. The National Prayer Breakfast should not be sponsored by government . That is establishment of religion, prohibited by Amendment I.
"There are chaplains in every branch of the armed forces to tend to the spiritual needs of its members."
In due keeping with freedom of religious practice, also under Amendment I, yes. But these should be provided at the expense of their respective religious or philosophical organizations, not at government expense. That is establishment of religion, i.e. illegal.
"Law enforcement, fire departments and hospitals have chaplains as do public universities."
See above, these should not be provided using public funds, nor should their ministries be part of any official activities. That is establishment of religion, illegal.
"Many of the Founding Fathers such as John Adams were Deists"
Adams certainly was not a Deist. He believed in miracles and Jesus as the redeemer of humanity.
"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the blackguard Paine say what he will."
(Adams's diary entry for 26 July 1796, in response to having read Paine's Deistic criticisms of Christianity in his book _Age of Reason_ )
"Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible."
Which excluded all reference to any supernatural trait or event. Jefferson actually was a Deist, though he didn't identify himself as such. However Jefferson also wrote the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, and in fact considered it one of his greatest accomplishments, even more so than his Presidency since the Statute is included in his self-chosen epitaph while his Presidency is not.
Some choice quotes from that Statute: "to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical"-- "forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness" -- "our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions in physics or geometry" -- "to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty" -- "all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of Religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge or affect their civil capacities"
"86% of the people in Greece according to the Census are Christian."
Which means exactly nothing in this context, according to Amendment I.
"An overwhelming 65% are Roman Catholic."
Also meaningless here.
"Majority rules in this country."
But not absolutely, nor even within the framework of the law, which seeks to secure the liberty of all, minorities very much included.
"The fact that a small handful of shrill atheists"
It doesn't matter who the minority is or how shrill they are. Replace 'shrill atheists' in this sentence with 'uppity blacks' or 'stingy Jews' or 'bra-burning feminists' and you may realize how bigoted it is.
"want to ram their opinion of a Godless world down everyone else's throat"
In case you don't know, this is called a 'straw man' -- a lie told to distort the perception of something or someone you oppose -- it's simply not true that atheists opposing 'official prayer' are trying to force their opinion on others, what they're trying to do is get government to follow the actual letter of the law per Amendment I in keeping with the important reasons it exists.
"doesn't mean they should be allowed to run roughshod."
The people really running roughshod in this matter are the Christians of the town of Greece. That's the whole point, which you seem to have missed entirely.
Last year's event was fun for us viewers, trying to find all the art (there is still some I haven't found) and watching the artists' different techniques. Offering sympathy for the hot weather occurring last year was universal. If there's a theme, it may be more accessible, but I still expect some mind-stretching work.
Everyone in Charlotte assumes that the one on the side of Steel River is Karl Marx. I've never known Charlotte to ever have been a fishing village, but I could be wrong.
No one is being denied access through this ruling. Why do those on the left side of the isle keep saying this?
"Morelle says that while Buffalo has received more state financial aid than Rochester, it's not much more. When you add the money that the city's received for Eastman Business Park, Midtown, the University of Rochester, and Rochester Institute of Technology, he says, Rochester's financial aid is almost on par with Buffalo's.
Sorry Joe, but that is a lie. Buffalo has gotten more projects than these, in addition to the Buffalo Billion. Buffalo has traditionally gotten up to 10x as much as us for equivalent projects. Buffalo waterfront $300 million-Rochester waterfront $14 million. $7 million of our own money from selling Hemlock and Canadice lakes. $100 million for the Richardson towers renovation. $240 million for 2 football stadium renovations. Buffalo got to keep the 716 area code, costing our businesses millions and then they help create laws that keep all of the Federally funded hydro power away from Rochester.
I've been reading the Buffalo newpapers for decades, and believe me, we have gotten scr---wed.
Joe Morelle is a politician that "represents" us. Please tell us how sending our money to the city next door helps your constituents. A Brookings Institute study said it perfectly--Kodak, Xerox and B&L were so robust that our government never had to do anything about economic development. Over the last few years when the big 3 started losing ground, our government was sitting on their hands. The shame is, they still are.
I would agree. Buffalo needed a lot more help so he started there, its only a matter of time for Rochester.
Buffalo will always be a town full of blue collar mentality, Buffalonians embrace their simpleton ways. Rochester thinks bigger and you find people in Rochester think a little bigger. Rochester is slower to change and adapt than larger cities, but every small city is like that. Of course Rochester has a blue collar portion (the entire West Side) but it isnt all encompassing like it is in Buffalo.
Buffalo will always beat us on a few things, gorgeous old architecture (they had no urban renewal, there were no businesses in Buffalo and no money there from the 50's-80"s when urban renewal was highly regarded) and major league sports. But if the owners of the sports franchises were smart, they would make the Sabres and Bills regional teams like the New England Patriots. It would make them far more money.
The way many of us see it, it's not Freedom of Religion, but Freedom FROM Religion. While the founding fathers may have wanted to protect the rights to practice any religion, the overarching point is that there would be no national religion established.
The point is to protect us from ever having an Inquisition here.
The point of separation of church and state is to prevent us from being asked to bow our heads and close our eyes in a room where all parties should have their eyes open, and focused.
Steve - you are misinformed about the constitutional purpose in guaranteeing freedom of religion. The fact is that freedom of religion was SPECIFICALLY put into the constitution to protect minor religions from the predations of major religions like Christianity. That specifically large orthodox churches of various denominations could not jam THEIR Christian beliefs down others throats. The freedom of religion clause specifically forbade the government from adopting a single religion of any sort as their "base" religion. In that way the very people you named guaranteed that people like yourself could not - even if they were in the majority - dictate what religion people were exposed to as part of government. In the case of freedom of religion the majority most certainly should NOT rule.
Too bad that Dan Courtney is going to deliver an inclusive invocation. This will demonstrate absolutely nothing about the principle at stake here. If Greece had been hosting inclusionary invocations, there would have been no court case. I heard samples of these invocation on 1370 Connections -- WOW!!. I wish I could find transcripts of them to point you to, because until you hear what was being said at these invocations, you cannot get to an informed opinion on the matter. Most callers into Connections said that they were in favor of the invocations until they heard the tapes. These invocations trashed non-Christian religions and their followers in the most blatant and insulting way. That the Supremes could have ruled in their favor without at least a scolding for allowing such divisive hateful utterances is evidence of just how UNrepresentative these guys are -- this Gang of Five white, Catholic guys, with their ridiculously idolatrous view of the Founding Fathers.
I believe the Town of Greece is viewed in the nation kind of like Dayton Tennessee was following Scopes. I really hope it doesn't besmirch our whole region.
So glad I don't live in an intolerant place like Greece NY.
The U.S. Senate and House start their sessions with prayer every day. The President of the United States has participated in the National Prayer Breakfast for the last 61 years. There are chaplains in every branch of the armed forces to tend to the spiritual needs of its members. Law enforcement, fire departments and hospitals have chaplains as do public universities. Many of the Founding Fathers such as John Adams were Deists who believed that religion was good for one's moral character, even if they rejected the orthodoxy of religion. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the Bible. 86% of the people in Greece according to the Census are Christian. An overwhelming 65% are Roman Catholic. Majority rules in this country. The fact that a small handful of shrill atheists want to ram their opinion of a Godless world down everyone else's throat doesn't mean they should be allowed to run roughshod.
Greece; Critical Thinking Rediscovered
Thank you Dan Courtney…for reminding us that men and women are capable of critical thinking to make moral decisions without relying on the god's to determine (let alone agree upon) what’s right and wrong.
Joe Morelle is "mindful" ? Since when ?????
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